Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to LiquidFootball. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Are United turning into Liverpool?
Topic Started: Apr 9 2010, 02:56 PM (483 Views)
elcule
Member Avatar
Kolo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
ManYou
Apr 10 2010, 08:37 AM
To say we're going backwards is just not right. We sold Ronaldo and let Tevez leave so on paper you can quite rightly say we're not as good a team, even though only one of those players would be in the team this season if we had kept them.

So people look at our season, we're out of the CL at the quarter-final stage and second in the league, just two points behind. This is not "going backwards". Cup competitions have an element of luck about them and this season it just didn't go for us. We were undone by a moment of pure brilliance and a moment of madness from Rafael played a big part in why Bayern even had the chance to score that wonderful goal. Little details not going our way is why we're out, it could've happened last season, it could've happened the season before when we won the thing. Not enough to make me believe we're going backwards as a club.

Then there's the league, so if we don't win it this season we drop from first to possibly second, and only two points off the top, if this means a club is going backwards well.. I just find that funny. There's a fine line between first and second and if we fall the wrong side of that line, it's not exactly a backwards step. Mr. M got it when he said, we've challenged for the league and CL and that's what we set out to do at the start of this season and indeed the previous three seasons. We've done what we set out to do - Challenge.

If we miss out on the league, we end up with no major trophies but that can happen and it doesn't automatically mean we're going backwards. It means we haven't won a major trophy and nothing else.
This season - in the Premier League alone - you've lost three more games and let in three more goals and you still have five games to play; this is with a fixture list that is nowhere near as packed as it was for United last season. You can bang on about only being two points behind but I think that's relative, as shown by the CL. Neither United or CHelsea are the forces they were two years ago.
Posted Image

Winner.

"If I go to Anfield and someone puts the ball into the box and Carragher hammers it out of play the fans applaud. At Camp Nou you would never be applauded for that." - Xavi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ManYou
Member Avatar
Thierry Henry
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
We've scored more goals than last season so I suppose that means our attack has improved without Ronaldo and Tevez?

About our defensive frailties, well that is largely down to the fact we've hardly even played our first choice defence up until about a month ago. Any team will suffer because of this and the fact we've let in three more goals is hardly a failure.

All in all, I don't agree with this whole going backwards thing when you're talking about a team that has dropped from first to second. We failed to win anything in 1998 after Cantona left, some would've said we wet backwards but then the next season we won The Treble. It takes more than one season of not winning for a team to be "going backwards", especially considering that when people say we're going backwards, they really mean "the empire is crumbling".
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Artrun
Member Avatar
Francesco
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
ManYou
Apr 10 2010, 10:35 PM
We've scored more goals than last season so I suppose that means our attack has improved without Ronaldo and Tevez?

About our defensive frailties, well that is largely down to the fact we've hardly even played our first choice defence up until about a month ago. Any team will suffer because of this and the fact we've let in three more goals is hardly a failure.

All in all, I don't agree with this whole going backwards thing when you're talking about a team that has dropped from first to second. We failed to win anything in 1998 after Cantona left, some would've said we wet backwards but then the next season we won The Treble. It takes more than one season of not winning for a team to be "going backwards", especially considering that when people say we're going backwards, they really mean "the empire is crumbling".
:cheers: This lad's head is screwed on so tight it would squeak if you tried to turn it further.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
elcule
Member Avatar
Kolo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
ManYou
Apr 10 2010, 10:35 PM
We've scored more goals than last season so I suppose that means our attack has improved without Ronaldo and Tevez?

About our defensive frailties, well that is largely down to the fact we've hardly even played our first choice defence up until about a month ago. Any team will suffer because of this and the fact we've let in three more goals is hardly a failure.

All in all, I don't agree with this whole going backwards thing when you're talking about a team that has dropped from first to second. We failed to win anything in 1998 after Cantona left, some would've said we wet backwards but then the next season we won The Treble. It takes more than one season of not winning for a team to be "going backwards", especially considering that when people say we're going backwards, they really mean "the empire is crumbling".
I don't think your attack has improved, I think you've been forced to play in a more cavalier fashion to make up for your defensive frailties; look at your CL performances, letting in 2 goals in the second round compared to 0 last year, and then four goals vs Munich compared to the two against Porto. United would never have played like that in the CL last year and it's a similar case in the league. You went on a record breaking run of clean sheets - with Ferdinand injured for much of it - and thus didn't need to play as expansively as you have this season. The number of times you could easily settle for an energy saving and conservative 1-0 was alarming.

It annoys me when people bang on about injuries, you've have an incredibly injury prone RB and 2 CBs (Neville, Rio and Evans), you have to expect them to be injured and come up with a contingency plan - ie buying a class CB in the summer - instead of bemoaning your own bad luck.

I think the difference between 1998 and now is that Arsenal had an absolutely class team, one that continued to push United the season after and so it was perhaps understandable that a class team could lose the title to them. THis season none of the PL sides are that great. I'm not saying any empire is crumbling, I'm merely repeating a message that I've stated all season - United aren't good enough to win the PL and need some serious investment in order to scale the very high heights that you expect them to be achieving.
Posted Image

Winner.

"If I go to Anfield and someone puts the ball into the box and Carragher hammers it out of play the fans applaud. At Camp Nou you would never be applauded for that." - Xavi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ManYou
Member Avatar
Thierry Henry
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I just don't think it will be that hard. I mean in 2006 we didn't have great team certainly not one that would push that Chelsea side all the way but one decent signing (Carrick) along with a big improvement in a certain Cristiano Ronaldo and then Saha doing well after RvN left did the job and we grew into a winning machine.

I'm hoping for something similar this time around. If Rooney can play next season like he's done this season and there's a good improvement in two players or so, a fairly fit defence ad maybe a signing in midfield and then maybe even another up front then I think we could easily challenge for all major honours and then, especially in cup competitions, if we get that little bit of luck required, we can win one or even both the major titles.

Let's just say that we go and strike a deal for Villa, unlikely as it may seem to you, we'd have a front two to match anyone, it'd probably be the best in world football, certainly on paper anyways. Or if we were to go for just a midfielder/attacking-mid and we snapped up Modric or something, even both IF there's money there, then we'd have a top team, no question.

_______Van Der Sar
Brown_Ferdinand_Vidic_Evra
____Fletcher_Hargreaves
___Valencia_Modric_Nani
_________Rooney

or

______Van Der Sar
Brown_Ferdinand_Vidic_Evra
Valencia_Fletcher_Hargreaves_Nani
_________Rooney
__________Villa

Like I said, a bit of improvement here and there, especially in Nani's and Carrick's case with a return for Hargreaves and one of those signings and they're both top teams well capable of challenging and winning any competition its in.

I reckon there's money there and I also think Fergie will bring a proven big name to the club. He sees Chelsea now as the top team around, an Arsenal side that's always dangerous and especially Man City gaining momentum and looking to also overtake us as soon as they can. If Fergie can do ANYTHING to stop that, make no mistake about it, he will.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
elcule
Member Avatar
Kolo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I agree with you that both those sides look fantastic on paper, worthy of winning the league, but it's also incredibly hopeful. Ferdinand is not a player you can rely on anymore, you either have to give some real responsibility to Evans, or buy a proven CB who can step in for him when needed - this was, with the wonderful view of hindsight - Fergie's biggest mistake this summer.

It's also contingent on Hargreaves returning as the player he once was - which is possible, though questionable - but more so on Fergie doing exactly what this entire thread has been about, buying big, buying people who can do a job now. Not frittering money away on shit like Javi Hernandez and Chris Smalling who may or may not be good in five years time.
Posted Image

Winner.

"If I go to Anfield and someone puts the ball into the box and Carragher hammers it out of play the fans applaud. At Camp Nou you would never be applauded for that." - Xavi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rollingstone
Member Avatar
Viru
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
elcule
Apr 11 2010, 06:13 PM
buying big, buying people who can do a job now. Not frittering money away on shit like Javi Hernandez and Chris Smalling who may or may not be good in five years time.
I just don't understand it. I suppose it could suggest that we do still have a lot of money available to spend, who the fuck knows though?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
elcule
Member Avatar
Kolo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It either suggests you have a lot of money, or that Fergie wants to get all his deals done before the World Cup to ensure he's not the victim of price rises - this could certainly be the case for Javi, who I'm told has 4 in 4 for Mexico, who could well go far in this tournament.
Posted Image

Winner.

"If I go to Anfield and someone puts the ball into the box and Carragher hammers it out of play the fans applaud. At Camp Nou you would never be applauded for that." - Xavi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ManYou
Member Avatar
Thierry Henry
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Well I can only hope he does do some big money business and I think he will sign one big player. The defence is starting to look iffy now, especially given the age of Ferdinand, so I'd agree that this is also a problem area and it's hard to see that defence getting back to its peak.

I'm also hoping Chelsea start getting some problems, they have a really old midfield and then Mikel and Essien and the forner is a shit player so maybe those others will start looking their age next season. One or two first-team sgnings and I think we can easily challenge for the PL.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Keano
No Avatar
Superbatov.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
We wont have any money left if he keeps fucking it away on the likes of sweet pea or whatever he is called, Diouf, Toxic etc. when we could just buy one established player that we need for all that money spent on the above.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
elcule
Member Avatar
Kolo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
ManYou
Apr 11 2010, 06:20 PM
I'm also hoping Chelsea start getting some problems, they have a really old midfield and then Mikel and Essien and the forner is a shit player so maybe those others will start looking their age next season. One or two first-team sgnings and I think we can easily challenge for the PL.
I agree with you, though speaking from experience it's much better winning the league on your own merit rather than because everyone else has become shit. Chelsea I think will spend some money this summer - I hope they do anyway, I really want to see some quality new players contesting the CL next season.
Posted Image

Winner.

"If I go to Anfield and someone puts the ball into the box and Carragher hammers it out of play the fans applaud. At Camp Nou you would never be applauded for that." - Xavi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rollingstone
Member Avatar
Viru
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I don't think we need to worry about the defence unless Nemanja leaves. Evans alongside Vidic will be perfectly good enough. And I'd imagine that Evans will play more next year regardless of whether Rio is injured.

Anyway, Woods is about to tee off.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
« Previous Topic · General Football · Next Topic »
Add Reply