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Great players...
Topic Started: Mar 13 2009, 12:26 PM (417 Views)
Scholes
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How important is international performance with regards to how great certain players are considered to be? Does it or should it have that much bearing on how the greatness of players are judged?

Discuss.
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Sphinx^
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very important

the likes of pele wouldnt really count if not for his international displays cos he played pub football in his own country
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Vardy’s Mum
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Not important at all. The greatest footballer in world history could be born in San Marino or somewhere and play in a team surrounded by jokers making it impossible for him to shine. Where you are born is out of your control, and should have no bearing on how you're judged as a footballer.
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Scholes
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trigglebeef
Mar 13 2009, 12:47 PM
Not important at all. The greatest footballer in world history could be born in San Marino or somewhere and play in a team surrounded by jokers making it impossible for him to shine. Where you are born is out of your control, and should have no bearing on how you're judged as a footballer.
Surely it should have some bearing...

ie.

Henry 0 goals in 50 apps for France.
RVN 70 goals in 90 apps for Holland.

If that was the case then RVN would be considered the better player.
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Vardy’s Mum
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I see you're point, but once again the beef has a counter argument.

By your reckoning David Healy would then be considered better than Thierry Henry, Torres and many others, as his international strike rate is better.

I don't read much into international football because it's so different. The lack of understanding and teamwork compared to club football contorts the effectiveness of players. For example, maybe Healy is good at exploiting weak international defences but can't hack it against a well drilled defence in club football. There's loads of factors to consider, it's far from black and white.
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Sphinx^
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it depends how you class the greatest footballer?

in terms of ability you could come from anywhere, but if you are looking for achievement international football sets the marker

you take 2 players of equal ability, one plays in the world cup and scores, because of that he is seen as the better player

football is a results business so players will be based on their acheivements, especially their achievement at the top level agains the best players, which happens to be international football
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Scholes
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trigglebeef
Mar 13 2009, 01:05 PM
I see you're point, but once again the beef has a counter argument.

By your reckoning David Healy would then be considered better than Thierry Henry, Torres and many others, as his international strike rate is better.

What? :lol: I said that it should at least bear an influence. If for instance those stats about Henry and RVN were true, there's no way it should be disregarded. Club football is the bread and butter and should be the crux of how a player is judged, but a good international record isn't worthless.
Edited by Scholes, Mar 13 2009, 01:19 PM.
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Cull58
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I dont agree that international level is the top level at all. Champions league is easily the highest level football in the world. And Pele would be a nobody if not for his international record, which in my view is why he is nowhere near the best player ever.
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Vardy’s Mum
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Obviously it's going to have some bearing on how a player is judged but it shouldn't have too much.

International football is a poor standard. No international team would even make it into the last 16 of the champion's league.
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DaGunners
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So how can Mans on here possibly argue Cantona was more influential than Henry, or Keane a better player than Vieira? The two United players did sheep all internationally...
I am soft.
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KOL
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Cull58
Mar 13 2009, 01:20 PM
I dont agree that international level is the top level at all. Champions league is easily the highest level football in the world. And Pele would be a nobody if not for his international record, which in my view is why he is nowhere near the best player ever.
Ignorant way of looking at it. Ask any player proffesional footballer what he'd rather win, the World Cup or the Champions League, and they'll all tell you the exact same thing
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Scholes
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DaGunners
Mar 13 2009, 02:20 PM
So how can Mans on here possibly argue Cantona was more influential than Henry, or Keane a better player than Vieira? The two United players did sheep all internationally...
....How much bearing International performance has over how a player is judged is the topic of discussion and is a highly debatable subject.

How much bearing do you think it has because according to many, performing in international tournaments is the best way to boost stature.
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Scholes
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kingsoflondon
Mar 13 2009, 02:23 PM
Cull58
Mar 13 2009, 01:20 PM
I dont agree that international level is the top level at all. Champions league is easily the highest level football in the world. And Pele would be a nobody if not for his international record, which in my view is why he is nowhere near the best player ever.
Ignorant way of looking at it. Ask any player proffesional footballer what he'd rather win, the World Cup or the Champions League, and they'll all tell you the exact same thing
Yes, but that's not to say the quality of world cups is better than the quality of the CL.

I agree in that the CL knock-outs will generally see more quality than the World Cup knock-outs.
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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DaGunners
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You will see more quality in the world cup final than the cl final though...
I am soft.
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Scholes
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DaGunners
Mar 13 2009, 02:25 PM
You will see more quality in the world cup final than the cl final though...
In the last decade, Brazil x2, Germany, France x2 and Italy have contested the WC final...
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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