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Miguel Veloso
Topic Started: Jan 27 2009, 11:47 AM (819 Views)
7seven7
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Dirk Kuyt
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DaGunners
Jan 27 2009, 04:59 PM
He is not near the quality of Denilson. And what do you mean allow Cesc to play? Was it Denilson's fault that Cesc made wayward passes?

Denilson is a very talented player who will flourish at Arsenal. Just you watch...

:hysterics:

Veloso is so far beyond Denilson and Diaby its ridiculous. As a DM he's better in EVERY aspect to those two players. Arsenal would be lucky to sign him.
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DaGunners
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Danny Dyer
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Denilson isn't a DM, and Arsenal don't need one anyway. So, your wrong...
I am soft.
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7seven7
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Dirk Kuyt
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DaGunners
Jan 27 2009, 05:51 PM
Denilson isn't a DM, and Arsenal don't need one anyway. So, your wrong...

I think that Aresnal's failures this season vindicate the belief that they DO need a DM.
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DaGunners
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Danny Dyer
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No we don't need a DM. None of Wenger's successful teams deployed a "DM."

Here are a few posts I have made about Denilson:
Quote:
 
Denilson is a player you can trust to go out there and be a warrior for you. He doesn't complain if he is played out of position or things are going against us, he just gets on with it and bullocks himself every match.  Playing him as a strict holding player will not necessarily improve him defensively. If you restrict his attacking play, it could have a negative affect on him defensively and attacking. He needs to be given full freedom and responsibility on the pitch. Denilson is a very smart player and he knows he must do his fair share of defending. He doesn't need to have shackles put on his attacking play to achieve that.  Denilson's attacking play is so underrated here. He always makes something happen when he is near the area, whether it be a good pass or a nice off the ball run. That has disappeared over the last month or so, and its Wenger's doing, though Cesc deserves some of the blame too.

Lately Denilson has been bypassing a forward pass, even when its availiable and opts for the simple sideways option. I think that is a consequence of the role he is being asked to play.

As for our priority, we definitely need a top class wide player before a CB.  We have Djourou and Gallas as first choice, a very good pairing.  We need more creativity, movement, incivness, and possesion, something Arshavin would definitely give us.  Don't believe the English media hype about our defeding, its complete rubbish.  If you give the ball away in your own half due to a lack of movement or passing ability, your high defensive line will be beaten.  Also, attack is the best form of defense IMO.  We need to come out and put teams under a lot of pressure like we did back in the day.  Look at Barca.  They are hardly great defensively IMO, but they don't concede because their opponents are under so much pressure.  Barca pile players forward early, get the goal, and the other team has to open up play a bit and Barca blows them away on the counter.  Exactly what the Invincibles did...

Quote:
 
Wait until next season. Denilson will be a player who passes the ball forward brilliantly while also making the easy passes. He will also show you great ability in the final third ad good positioning defensively.

I believe Wenger went into the season with the idea of giving Denilson full freedom, which is evident in his preseason/early season performances. But when Cesc came back, for what ever reason (either laziness, sulking because Flamini/Hleb were gone, tiredness, or poor form) Cesc was not doing his share defensively and Denilson had to carry him. Wenger then gave Denilson a holding role in an effort to get more out of Cesc, improve team defending, and improve Denilson as a defender. Not only does restricitng Denilson take away from his attacking play, but it can make his defending worse. If you give him full freedom he will naturally defend, but Wenger is trying to fast track this process. Once Denilson earns Wenger's full trust, we will see a player who expresses himself more and is much more productive.

I can't wait to see Cesc and Denilson in the middle next season.
I am soft.
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Homer
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I am the King
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I want Veloso to parthner Fabregas.
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7seven7
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Dirk Kuyt
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DaGunners
Jan 27 2009, 05:56 PM
No we don't need a DM. None of Wenger's successful teams deployed a "DM."

Here are a few posts I have made about Denilson:
Quote:
 
Denilson is a player you can trust to go out there and be a warrior for you. He doesn't complain if he is played out of position or things are going against us, he just gets on with it and bullocks himself every match.  Playing him as a strict holding player will not necessarily improve him defensively. If you restrict his attacking play, it could have a negative affect on him defensively and attacking. He needs to be given full freedom and responsibility on the pitch. Denilson is a very smart player and he knows he must do his fair share of defending. He doesn't need to have shackles put on his attacking play to achieve that.  Denilson's attacking play is so underrated here. He always makes something happen when he is near the area, whether it be a good pass or a nice off the ball run. That has disappeared over the last month or so, and its Wenger's doing, though Cesc deserves some of the blame too.

Lately Denilson has been bypassing a forward pass, even when its availiable and opts for the simple sideways option. I think that is a consequence of the role he is being asked to play.

As for our priority, we definitely need a top class wide player before a CB.  We have Djourou and Gallas as first choice, a very good pairing.  We need more creativity, movement, incivness, and possesion, something Arshavin would definitely give us.  Don't believe the English media hype about our defeding, its complete rubbish.  If you give the ball away in your own half due to a lack of movement or passing ability, your high defensive line will be beaten.  Also, attack is the best form of defense IMO.  We need to come out and put teams under a lot of pressure like we did back in the day.  Look at Barca.  They are hardly great defensively IMO, but they don't concede because their opponents are under so much pressure.  Barca pile players forward early, get the goal, and the other team has to open up play a bit and Barca blows them away on the counter.  Exactly what the Invincibles did...

Quote:
 
Wait until next season. Denilson will be a player who passes the ball forward brilliantly while also making the easy passes. He will also show you great ability in the final third ad good positioning defensively.

I believe Wenger went into the season with the idea of giving Denilson full freedom, which is evident in his preseason/early season performances. But when Cesc came back, for what ever reason (either laziness, sulking because Flamini/Hleb were gone, tiredness, or poor form) Cesc was not doing his share defensively and Denilson had to carry him. Wenger then gave Denilson a holding role in an effort to get more out of Cesc, improve team defending, and improve Denilson as a defender. Not only does restricitng Denilson take away from his attacking play, but it can make his defending worse. If you give him full freedom he will naturally defend, but Wenger is trying to fast track this process. Once Denilson earns Wenger's full trust, we will see a player who expresses himself more and is much more productive.

I can't wait to see Cesc and Denilson in the middle next season.

All of Wenger's successful teams have employed a DM, Viera, Petit, Gilberto, Flamini etc . . .

Denilson offers much more as a deep lying playmaker than as a DM, so I agree that if given more freedom he will flourish.
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ManYou
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Thierry Henry
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DaG is gonna tell you none of them are DM, but they all had great presence and defensive attributes. Denilson lacks in these areas without a doubt and Arsenal's midfield will stay poor while he's getting trampled on by tougher players.
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Scholes
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I trust DaGunners' opinion on Veluso, I really do. Everything he says about players from other leagues seem to come true. Obviously it's a shame he makes ridiculous comments about the PL but the guy is a knowledge base and may as well be a global football scout.
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Homer
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PaulPinpointScholes
Jan 27 2009, 06:19 PM
I trust DaGunners' opinion on Veluso, I really do. Everything he says about players from other leagues seem to come true. Obviously it's a shame he makes ridiculous comments about the PL but the guy is a knowledge base and may as well be a global football scout.

You over-rated Dagunners
He has good knowledge of the french league and ermmmmm :whistle:

Most things he says is usually wrong with exception of 1 or 2 players.
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7seven7
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Dirk Kuyt
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PaulPinpointScholes
Jan 27 2009, 06:19 PM
I trust DaGunners' opinion on Veluso, I really do. Everything he says about players from other leagues seem to come true. Obviously it's a shame he makes ridiculous comments about the PL but the guy is a knowledge base and may as well be a global football scout.

Well, having watched Veloso play on a number of occasions it's my opinion that Veloso is far better than any defensive minded midfielder that Arsenal currently possess.
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Homer
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7seven7
Jan 27 2009, 06:21 PM
Well, having watched Veloso play on a number of occasions it's my opinion that Veloso is far better than any defensive minded midfielder that Arsenal currently possess.

:greatpost: :greatpost: :greatpost:
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Sphinx^
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Guitar Hero
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DaGunners
Jan 27 2009, 05:02 PM
No he couldn't. He is a player who was viewed as very talented 2 seasons ago and has gone backwards since.

im sure i remember you raving about veloso at one point
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Scholes
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Homer
Jan 27 2009, 06:21 PM
You over-rated Dagunners
He has good knowledge of the french league and ermmmmm :whistle:

Most things he says is usually wrong with exception of 1 or 2 players.

What comments on foreign players does he get wrong then? Name them :D
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Scholes
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Nothing's as it seems
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I typed in DaGunners Veloso on google to see what comments I could find. Anyway, he said the same about Veloso on an Arsenal forum as he did here, but I also found this -

Quote:
 
I have seen Axel Witsel play a few times and he is going to be a brilliant goal scoring winger. But his countryman, Eden Hazard is going to be the knees bees. Closest thing to CR7 in world football for me...


KNEES BEES :hysterics:

Only a Yank could provide such comedy value!
Scholes
 

Seriously, Frank Lampard is an absolute legend of the game. He needs to be recognised in some way eg. Frank Lampard OBE, Sir Frank Lampard or some kind of lifetime achievement award.

AntMcfc
 
Greatest ownage machine: Scholes. Absolute animal when he was a regular poster, I always knew I was in the right when he was backing me up, and I couldn't wait to read a topic that he was posting in because I knew he'd be tearing someone apart
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Homer
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I am the King
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PaulPinpointScholes
Jan 27 2009, 06:39 PM
Homer
Jan 27 2009, 06:21 PM
You over-rated Dagunners
He has good knowledge of the french league and ermmmmm  :whistle:

Most things he says is usually wrong with exception of 1 or 2 players.

What comments on foreign players does he get wrong then? Name them :D

Dani Alves
Miguel Veloso
Del Piero

I cant remember every name he said but he is very consistent at being inconsistent just look at his own board.
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